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Reefus

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Samstag, 11. März 2023, 19:59

Mod to Improve AI?

Hi guys,

Firstly I apologize that I cannot speak the native language here. Hopefully that won't be too much of an issue.

I just wanted to ask if anyone could help me identify which parameters are related to the most fundamental aspects of AI.

Recently I bought Anno 1404 - HE and noticed something strange/depressing. I started a Continuous game with 3 hard AI, but the AI in this version seem very stupid. None of the AI have made it to Nobles.. not after 5 hours.

Apparently two of the AI went to war, one of Lucius' auxiliary islands was purged, but the AI are too dumb to rebuild it or claim other islands that are vacant.

End result is I have an almost max difficulty game that is laughably easy- easier than having 3 easy AI I would say. I feel robbed of any challenge.

Are there any keys edits I could use in the XML files to make them less stupid?




PS. I'm not sure if this behaviour is exclusive to HE edition. In normal 1404 I never had a game where the AI could not advance to Nobles. Did they nerf the AI in the HE version or this is just really bad luck?



Appreciate any help.

nordstern84

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Samstag, 11. März 2023, 20:55

In germany we must learn english in school and currently even in preschool ;) So many or most can english. Maybe unlearn it over time if you do not need it in job or so. And then many do not want to speak/write it. Because we learn to use a perfect native speaking english. All other things are wrong. So many (in my school all classmates with good grades) want not to speak/write private because of the chance to make mistakes. My opinion is: i am not a native speaker, i must not use english without mistakes. I only must can communicate (write, speak and understand) so that other english speakers can understand me.. thats all. But hey.. i had a 5 in school in english and a 4 in university (2nd worst grade and 3rd worst grade possible). But in holiday in england and italy even with the class i was the only mate who wanted to speak with the natives for example to order or to ask for the way. But hey... i was the only the worst classmate in english ;)

And so i hope my english is ok.


In Anno it was always so that the difficult of an AI was defined by his character. So their is no option you can increase the difficulty of an designed AI.

Are you using mods? In Anno1800 its a known issue that mods can block AI from developing... maybe in 1404 too.

Also the AI will not evolve if it can not. Maybe because you have all islands they need to produce goods to evolve. If you controll every tabaco island, they can not produce it semselfes and will starve. So i am looking, if i play with AI, that i will let the AI islands with enough mines and fertilities to evolve.


Maybe the AI is slower than you. My 1404 time is long ago. But the AI evolves in steps and some AIs do not evolve more than 1 step or the same step as / above the player. So if you do not have any nobles, they will also not use them. This was in 1404 designed so that the AI will "wait" for the player. Also they have an intern timer for the steps to evolve. So they will never rush through the steps, even if it can.


Maybe other user have more suggestions. You can try to save the game and than speed it up and make something else and look what happens maybe after 10h or so.
greetings
nordstern
  Ich bin Legastheniker.

Wer also Rechtschreibfehler oder unklare Formulierungen findet, soll bitte versuchen die Grundaussage zu verstehen oder darf sie gerne behalten :)

Danke für euer Verständnis.

Reefus

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Samstag, 11. März 2023, 23:37

Hi Nordstern84,

Thanks so much for the detailed reply and for the insight into your culture. As someone who is not bilingual I have always had respect and admiration for those that have grasped other languages.

Perhaps I could have been more concise in what I wanted to achieve. Apparently you can mod the AI behaviours via XML file editing, but I don't have much of an idea what parameters relate to key aspects of AI logic.

Ideally I would like to make it so the AI never declare war on each other. I think that would help a lot for the purpose of increasing difficulty.

I am not using any mods at all. Using a fresh Steam install of Anno 1404 - HE.

Good point regarding island access and resource denial, however I think things are quite equitable in my current game. I have only 4 islands on a Huge map. By the looks of it, each AI should have access to at least 4 islands each, perhaps more.

What eludes me the most is that I've played this seed (identical settings) 4 times back-to-back recently on the original 1404 Venice and did not have these issues. The only difference is that in those other games I only had 2 Hard 1 Medium AI instead of 3 Hard.

It has always been the case that in (1404 Non-HE) the AI advance faster than me, especially for the Patrician/Noble transition, but in this HE version they are extremely slow and stupid. I'm now curious if this behaviour is inherent to the HE version.


Somewhat of a breakthrough- just now Lucius finally rebuilt something on his destroyed island. It just took him several hours to do it lol. Granted he only built one farm... I find it slightly annoying as I have not attacked or raided any of the AI islands, nor am I being greedy with island acquisition. This whole thing wreaks of an AI nerf. Either that or really bad luck. :keineahnung:

Reefus

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Sonntag, 12. März 2023, 01:17

Well I just checked the map and there are still 5 vacant islands with all the necessary fertilities to get to Nobles and beyond.

Di Mercante has 6 really good islands and is still stuck at Citizen level housing...He doesn't even have Envoys despite having access to everything he needs. I have never seen anything like this in the original game or Venice.

I'm beginning to suspect the HE version has either nerfed AI or is full of AI related bugs.

Artey

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Sonntag, 12. März 2023, 16:00

I don't know if the AI behaves differently between versions. If so, then this is something I never noticed. For me, playing against hard AIs really only means that I hurry up because otherwise they will notice that you're falling behind and declare war, by which point it's too late. Anyway, the AI cheats, so I consider them to be more like obstacles that hinder your progress (and time sinks for grinding achievements) rather than real players.

As far as I know, the behaviour of the AIs is defined in data1.rda/data/config/ai/aiprofiles.xml. Their names appear at the end of each entry like <Name>Kardinal Lucius</Name>. They are about 5000 lines, but a big portion is taken up by their messages like offering a trade pact, which may not be what you're after. In the <Relationships> parts you can change how different AIs treat each other. There are other things like their building behaviour, but I haven't toyed around with that. Many parameters are self-explanatory and for the other ones you can refer to properties.xml in the same folder, although maybe it's in German. Even then, they are just parameters. Modifying their behaviour any more than that is probably much harder and I have no clue how to do that. If you want a fair match, multiplayer is probably your only option.

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Sonntag, 12. März 2023, 22:33

Hey Artey,

Thanks for the info. I already have the files extracted, just struggling to find any useful parameters to modify. I tried cross-referencing the files from both versions and found very little disparity between them. The HE aiprofiles.xml is only missing two relatively small chunks of code totalling roughly 200 lines. So far my intuition has failed me discerning what that means. Other, larger chunks of differing code are found between addon01_aiprofiles, which I think covers the Venice portion of AI behaviour.


Having the AI delcare war is what I count on to make the game interesting. In my experience it's perfectly viable to defend against 3 hard AI, even if they focus you from the beginning. Its chaotic beyond measure but very doable. One of the most enjoyable RTS experiences I've had in a long time. I'm just having trouble replicating this in the HE version.

Throwing Giovanni into the mix seems problematic. He essentially has a positive auto-disposition to the player if they are playing well in terms of economy, which makes it annoyingly hard to maintain bad relations with him. I think that partially explains why my last game failed so badly.

What seems apparent is that his early domination of other AI crippled them, causing irreparable damage to their economies. What confuses me the most is that Giovanni himself still has a pathetic show of force despite his flourishing empire.


At 7 hours in, each AI has 6-7 established islands, yet on the map only 5 ships total can be seen... The map is completely dead, its so bizarre. Something that is possibly even more troubling is that the AI in this game have no Flagships.. I have not seen a single Flagship since the start of the game. Conversely, in my last (Non-HE) game the AI were buying Flagships every few minutes and they were always present on the map, even 10 hours in.

I can't begin to fathom why there is such stark contrast between these games. Literally the only difference is that I added Giovanni to replace Guy Forcus.

The game just feels broken in many ways. I had to stop that game as it became supremely boring. I really need to find a way to prevent the AI going to war with each other. I doubt that would rectify these other odd behaviours, but it would be a start.

Reefus

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Sonntag, 12. März 2023, 22:53

There is actually yet another oddity I found in the HE version, which is the Harbour area bug. I've had lots of trouble with that in the HE version using identical map seed and building placement. That stands out to me as I've not once encountered that bug in over 1,000 hours of Venice.

I wonder if all this comes down to engine related bugs and not the actual game data.

Artey

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Montag, 13. März 2023, 00:19

As far as I know, there are multiple changes made to the HE that were never officially disclosed like the beggar trick. Even then, I think it would be strange if the AI somehow got broken in the HE. If I recall correctly, they were hardly able to build big cities in the original and eventually just shut off altogether. And, well, I don't really care. Anno has different facets. I think the building and economy parts are great, whereas diplomacy and military are underdeveloped and not satisfying. I still think that's better than in 2070 where the developers didn't even try, but if you're interested in the military aspect, then hopefully you have better games to play than this.

Is the harbour area bug the one where everything goes red and can't be demolished? I've had that happen once to me, I don't know what causes it, but it's strange for sure.

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Montag, 13. März 2023, 01:12

Yes there are easily better games focusing primarily on militaristic gameplay, however there are none I have found that offer such a beautiful combination of warfare and city building. I am more or less trying to harness from what potential the game has to be great in both regards.

I know from experience that the game has the potential to offer a fulfilling and chaotic challenge through both warfare and city building. I'm just having trouble deciphering why certain elements are so inconsistent across games, or more accurately, what I can do to rectify it.

It might be as you said, that the AI will inevitably "shut off" which is consistent with my observations as well. However it doesn't go very far to explain the extreme dichotomy of behaviours I've been encountering between Venice and HE. In my Venice game (same seed) it was absolute madness fighting off all 4 factions. It was a massive war that lasted well beyond the 5 hours mark and the map remained very busy, which is the inverse of my current HE game.

And no Flagships in this game, what is that about? Surely that is indicative of a very sinister problem.



The Harbour area bug was actually unknown to me until starting my first HE map. Its similar to what you described, but in my case, no buildings could be built within the harbour area, which I later found to be related to ill-defined island boundaries/markers, only rectified by removing offending structures from other Harbour areas of the island.

nordstern84

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Montag, 13. März 2023, 01:43

Thats a current problem i see too.

Most game focus on one feature. Anno for example on logistics and even this is simple. In previous anno-titles their was more war and more economic.

But other games like the new settler is much worse. The new Pharaoh also makes no real war and is focused an building monuments.

Even newer paradox titles like victoria 3 are focused an one strengh. So here building and controlling permanent the production and trades is the main focus. diplomacy or military is nearly dead.

For me this trend is a bit surprising because Europa Universalis IV has all. A bit economic, military and war, diplomacy and inner politics. And is the most selled game of the firm and also currently 10 years after release still played and supported with DLCs and updates. They made imperator rome and it was a mess (it was a good game, but to weak features in release and because of the frustration fast stopped support). On the other hand stellaris was really successfull till today and it also can make all.

And than they bring victoria 3 as production manager and not much more. You can fight, you can trade and make diplomacy but its all very... weak, especially the military part is aweful for this genre and the time period of the game.

The Problem often is, that in simulations and building games, military does need a hugh amount of work for the ai. Building up not. And in reallity ai does not sell games. Grafic and the feature list sells but ai or good military or deep gameplay do not sell... at the beginning. And as long as firms see the sucess of a game in the release and preorder sales, this will not change.

Also marketing is a problem. For example ubisoft asked youtuber how they want "the Division 1+2". But they did not ask the players or youtubers of this games. They asked youtuber of Battlefield and Call of Duty series.

The same in "the settlers". It was on the right way. And then they thought making an clone of AoE2 would be a nice idea because of the sucess of AoE4. And at the end, they redesigned it 2 years completly and released a game with stupid, useless ai, lesser economic tha aoe and without the varity of troops or tactical maps a rts should have. So they made a game which is good. But not what it should be and not what it wanted to be. It can both, but all lesser than the games of this series. And with lesser content and massive bugs...



I am playing surviving Mars, Anno1800, etc but at the end i am waiting for a new caesar II. A game from i think 1995 which made a good split between combat, development and provinces. You build up a city with more mechanics like anno. Also you must raise the province in a separate map to give your city enough emplyees, goods and trade. And this must all work to gain money. And you must defend this with an army you could command in the province and fight battles in a 3rd screen.
  Ich bin Legastheniker.

Wer also Rechtschreibfehler oder unklare Formulierungen findet, soll bitte versuchen die Grundaussage zu verstehen oder darf sie gerne behalten :)

Danke für euer Verständnis.

Reefus

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Montag, 13. März 2023, 04:16

Even though its probably a matter of preference, I personally haven't had much luck finding games that, like anno, bring together two sub-genres in almost perfect harmony. For me, the Naval warfare is simplistic yet gratifying in its own right. Clearly not the main focus, but it's layered quite well on top of what is already a stellar and high-quality city builder.


As someone who doesn't particularly like pure city builders, I find it fascinating to play a game that allows for both deep and complex city management, as well as the potential for chaotic large-scale naval battles. The two compliment each other very well imo. The latter is something you can only really experience on the hardest settings and in the most ideal of circumstances, or when the AI permits it.


I'm just having a hard time coming to terms with how inconsistent the AI are for the purposes of maintaining functioning empires as it relates to both warfare and logistics. It seems like all the nuts and bolts are there, but the cogs are barely turning.



For anyone who wants a nice map or wants to test this seed, I will display the details below.


57032
3 hard AI
Huge map
Fertilities -Many
Island difficulty -Easy
Raw Materials - Many
Neutral Powers - medium
---
Refund - off
Quests - Medium
Start -Flagship
Honour - 100
Start Balance - 10k
Start Item - off
Revealed map - off
Sabotage - off
Council - off
----
Natural Disasters - all on except Volcano/Tornado
----
Last Survivor - everything else off
----
Difficulty - 1350
------------------------------

Not sure how many of these variables matter but I noticed changing things like Neutral powers will actually change Fertilities on some islands.

Another seed that shows promise: 98681

Reefus

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Montag, 13. März 2023, 04:55

Another seed that shows promise: 98681
After looking more closely it could be this map that shows more promise than all the others. While the islands aren't centrally or conveniently located by merchant towns, they are conveniently spread across one side of the map. If I'm not mistaken this might be the perfect map for enduring long drawn-out wars with the AI as they will have free passage to conduct trade and whatnot instead of suiciding into your towers.

If anyone finds an even better map with similar characteristics, please share.